So...about the recent Diablo3 news

[Nightwing]

Hey guys

Haven't seen any threads about this, but if so please could a mod delete this one?

Wondering what the thoughts are of those of you were were/are looking forward to Diablo3. Couple of changes pissed me off to put things mildly. The removal of skill point assignments is one thing, and it's something I would be prepared to at least try before I accuse them of dumbing down the gameplay more than they already have. The introduction of a real money auction house, well that's a more contentious issue. My personal take on it is, it's against the spirit of the Diablo franchise, and to me anyway, the appeal of the game is in item farming, or just trusting the drops to provide enough usable equipment for your character. If you go out and buy the best of everything then where's the real incentive to play through the game again?

It's bad enough that by introducing free, unlimited skill respecs, they're dealing a severe blow to replayability, another cornerstone of the Diablo franchise.

Of course Blizzard stand to make a cut of every single transaction that happens on the RMAH, and that HAS to be a determining factor, more so than the official company line of wanting to provide a safe environment for players to purchase items with real money. Also, the implication that many players want to do this is mildly insulting.

The real deal-breaker for me is the removal of any offline mode. SC2 might have required us to log in periodically to authenticate our key, but for the rest we *could* play offline if we liked, not so with D3. I'm tired of lag (played wow for quite a while), I'm tired of the temperamental nature of my connection and Telkom's incompetence, but mostly I'm tired of Blizz being super-prescriptive about how we should or shouldn't be playing this game. At some point they have to step away and just let gamers make their own decisions (within reason, of course).

Sorry for the wall of text, but I find myself reconsidering D3, with Torchlight 2 and a few other ARPG's on the horizon, perhaps it's time to accept that D3 is not the game for me.

Thoughts?

 

[MOnk]

It's bad enough that by introducing free, unlimited skill respecs, they're dealing a severe blow to replayability, another cornerstone of the Diablo franchise.

Actually I think this is the complete opposite, by giving you the ability to change out your skills and to build your character in different ways all the time you keep your character fresh and have more incentive to experiment with your own character. Sure there is now no reason to make a second character of the same class but you have more choice from the get go and you can always try out one of the other 4 classes.

So instead of getting to that situation where you're 30-40levels in and realize hey this build isn't that fun or very good or maybe you're just bored of it, now you don't have to scrap your char or just suck it up, you can change things up and make it fresh.

 

[Nightwing]

Yeah I agree in the sense that it's almost impossible to screw up your character build with this new system, take a few seconds, click a few skills and you have a brand new build to play with (I think they've been saying it takes 3 clicks in total). This is all cool and stuff, but I'm one of those weird types who likes rolling new "theme" character variants, battlecry barbarians, tooth necromancers etc, and for the people who don't like levelling, this system is perfect.

Prob is with them forcing online-only, you'll have 10 character slots, and so rolling new characters is pretty limited anyway.

I can live with the new skill system, what really bugs me is the 10 char limit, and being forced to play with a ping of 350+ depending on the mood my connection is in.

 

[MOnk]

Yeah I don't like limited slots especially if you want to make new characters to level up with your friends. The 200-300ms ping in co-op is also going to suck but that we can only know for sure once the beta hits.

rolling new "theme" character variants, battlecry barbarians, tooth necromancers etc

Well to me this new system sounds very similar to the skill system in Guild Wars and if you go have a look over there you will see there are TONS of different builds you can make for your character because abilities will interact with each other in ways that will either complement or detract from them. Add to that altering your skills with the runes and I think you'll have a lot more variety in class makeup than you had in D2.

 

[Nightwing]

The 200-300ms ping in co-op is also going to suck but that we can only know for sure once the beta hits.

This is one of the things I'm unsure of. I know in the case of SC2 you have to log in every 30 days to re-authenticate your CD key, but for the rest if you want to play single player offline without the achievements etc, you can, and the gameplay does happen locally. Thing is, what they're proposing with D3 (at least in my understanding) is that even if you're playing solo your client needs to constantly communicate with the server, so you'd have lag whether you're playing co-op or solo, which is really not cool.

Well to me this new system sounds very similar to the skill system in Guild Wars and if you go have a look over there you will see there are TONS of different builds you can make for your character because abilities will interact with each other in ways that will either complement or detract from them. Add to that altering your skills with the runes and I think you'll have a lot more variety in class makeup than you had in D2.

OK I'm convinced, and I'd be totally open to experimenting with this system rather than pre-judging, I'd be stoked if it turns out to be as flexible as you're suggesting.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The ability to reset skills whenever you want really dissapointed me.

In D2 it mattered what you did with your skill points. Saving skill points and boosting synergies for higher skills, focussing on building a character that will make it through hell, instead of just going for instant rewards. It also made eventually getting the items that suits your skills so much more rewarding.

Now you can just reset your skills to suit your items... that you just bought.

They screwed that up a bit.

 

[MOnk]

Saving skill points and boosting synergies for higher skills, focussing on building a character that will make it through hell

You mean after you had to google to find what character builds were actually viable for Hell. All that does is punish people for not knowing exactly which abilities are good/bad together before they even start playing. I get the whole 'you're invested in your character' thing but I just think the price you pay is too great for the average person who just wants to enjoy their game without having to research their class.

 

[Nightwing]

You mean after you had to google to find what character build were actually viable for Hell. All that does is punish people for not knowing exactly which abilities are good/bad together before they even start playing. I get the whole 'you're invested in your character' thing but I just think the price you pay is too great for the average person who just wants to enjoy their game without having to research their class.

Definitely a valid point you're making, and the skill system has undergone a few iterations that we're aware of (goodness knows how many options they have tried which have never been made public). My concern is longevity and long-term viability of this system. 11 Years after its launch I still occasionally fire up D2 and have some fun with some or other character that never killed Hell Baal.

Early on in D2, I concede, most of us had no idea if our builds would be viable in endgame, or even what the endgame would entail, My first sorceress had 15 points in warmth, this was before I realised that with a large enough energy pool, and the sheer abundance of mana pots, mana regen was really not a big deal at all. Thing is once many of us gained better understanding of what skills and combos were viable, we started delving into all sorts of whacky builds and having fun, because the game allowed it.

This new system might very well do away with the uncertainty of how viable skills might be in endgame (since you can simply select a different combination), it's like having all your xmas presents opened on December 1, kinda ruining the surprise when 25th rolls around.

I don't know, just seems it removes some of the incentive to roll new characters, and that was a large part of my D2 enjoyment, but I guess I need to accept this is a different game developed for a different type of gamer, it just bears the diablo name

 

[Jabberwocky]

You mean after you had to google to find what character builds were actually viable for Hell. All that does is punish people for not knowing exactly which abilities are good/bad together before they even start playing. I get the whole 'you're invested in your character' thing but I just think the price you pay is too great for the average person who just wants to enjoy their game without having to research their class.

Thats the problem with games today, they assume we are dumb, no depth.
diablo 2 is not popular to this day because it is easy and you don`t have to research.

 

[Necuno]

All I see is old school fanboys ranting at foamy mouth because D3 is just not the D2 they are used to.

Not quite sure which cue has been missed here, but not a lot of games are old school in the sense of being something you have to work for to achieve something or are at least challenging to the point were you have to *gasp* think.

Blizzard north left and failed with hellgate london and original team lost. Did you guys really think after the easy-fi-cation of wow D3 would be anything but oldschool d2 play? Sure it would will be diablo, but not just the same. Maybe some games should be left to die off... like DNF rather than bringing it out.

 

[MOnk]

I think it's a case of wait and see, the concept itself is sound, it's up to the implementation as to whether it becomes easy-to-learn-hard-to-master or just easy.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think it's a case of wait and see, the concept itself it sound, it's up to the implementation as to whether it becomes easy-to-learn-hard-to-master or just easy.

well said... I don`t expect blizzard to fail us. But we`ll now see how much they were influenced by the dark side after the merger.

 

[Nightwing]

All I see is old school fanboys ranting at foamy mouth because D3 is just not the D2 they are used to.

Wow, and here I was trying to present measured, considered arguments and specifically not to rant. Why is it that whenever people question or debate the direction a neagerly-anticipated game is taking words like "fanboy" and "rant" so often enter the equation?

Anyway thanks for your opinions.

 

[Necuno]

Wow, and here I was trying to present measured, considered arguments and specifically not to rant. Why is it that whenever people question or debate the direction a neagerly-anticipated game is taking words like "fanboy" and "rant" so often enter the equation?
Anyway thanks for your opinions.

Not really. You said you don't like X in D3 because it was Y in D2. That's says you actually liked D2 especially some aspects of it which imho makes you a fan of the IP or it's mechanics. Seriously who would play a game if they didn't like it and are not a fan of it?

You're clearly complaining about something, very ranty or nerd ragy which a fan normally would do...

 

[Nightwing]

Not really. You said you don't like X in D3 because it was Y in D2. That's says you actually liked D2 especially some aspects of it which imho makes you a fan of the IP or it's mechanics. Seriously who would play a game if they didn't like it and are not a fan of it?

You're clearly complaining about something, very ranty or nerd ragy which a fan normally would do...

OK since we're getting pedantic....

A rant is (according to the dictionary); "Violent or extravagant speech or writing. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence"

Dunno, last time I checked I wasn't inciting or advocating violence, nor was I particularly extravagant, merely expressing my concerns about the development direction in a game I am particularly looking forward to. I was and am prepared to make concessions when someone pointed out in this very thread, that the new skill system might indeed be a very positive thing.

A Fanboy (again, according to that convenient dictionary thing); "An arrogant person who goes into an outburst every time something he likes is questioned. Fanboys usually acuse others of being fanboys. "

My OP doesn't sound like an outburst but I'm willing to concede it might have been taken that way. I actually am genuinely interested in peoples' opinions on the recent D3 news, and I am neither a fanboy of Blizzard nor the diablo franchise, given that I'm trying to engage in critical appraisal of the features, instead of mindless spewing of vitriol and threats of grievous bodily harm (as fanboys are wont to do)

I could overturn it all and accuse YOU of being a fanboy, but that's counter to what I'm hoping to achieve here (an honest discussion about a game currently in development). I also feel that, too many times, threads that are started with the best of intentions are often derailed by people who either don't care about or read what's been said (in which case, why post anyway?), or who are far too quick to label things inappropriately because yes I'm a fan, but I respectfully disagree that I'm a fanboy.

Anyway this is becoming more about semantics than anything else. If you have opinions or thoughts on the D3 development, what works for you and what doesn't, please feel free to express those. If you want to label me or others, I really couldn't care less, and you'd ultimately be wasting your time.

 

[Necuno]

eep wall text

/starts to read

OK since we're getting pedantic....

A rant is (according to the dictionary); "Violent or extravagant speech or writing. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence"

Dunno, last time I checked I wasn't inciting or advocating violence, nor was I particularly extravagant, merely expressing my concerns about the development direction in a game I am particularly looking forward to. I was and am prepared to make concessions when someone pointed out in this very thread, that the new skill system might indeed be a very positive thing.

A Fanboy (again, according to that convenient dictionary thing); "An arrogant person who goes into an outburst every time something he likes is questioned. Fanboys usually acuse others of being fanboys. "

My OP doesn't sound like an outburst but I'm willing to concede it might have been taken that way. I actually am genuinely interested in peoples' opinions on the recent D3 news, and I am neither a fanboy of Blizzard nor the diablo franchise, given that I'm trying to engage in critical appraisal of the features, instead of mindless spewing of vitriol and threats of grievous bodily harm (as fanboys are wont to do)

I could overturn it all and accuse YOU of being a fanboy, but that's counter to what I'm hoping to achieve here (an honest discussion about a game currently in development). I also feel that, too many times, threads that are started with the best of intentions are often derailed by people who either don't care about or read what's been said (in which case, why post anyway?), or who are far too quick to label things inappropriately because yes I'm a fan, but I respectfully disagree that I'm a fanboy.

Anyway this is becoming more about semantics than anything else. If you have opinions or thoughts on the D3 development, what works for you and what doesn't, please feel free to express those. If you want to label me or others, I really couldn't care less, and you'd ultimately be wasting your time.

:edit
You a fangirl then ?

I'd be quite interested to see how D3 measures up to everybody's expectations and fanboyisms seeing already that part of D3 might not survive it due to too many expectations and people wanting X to be the way to was.

Bill certainly is having a big smile at D3 not including lan and how people crucified him over Hellgate London and lack of their lan support.

Now lets see if D3 makes day of light and how far it will fall. I'm all for it, but more realistically I'm not going to expect too much from it since D2 seems to have been the epitome of the diablo series. Maybe someone will even put a more darker texture override out there...

 

[Nightwing]

:edit
You a fangirl then ?

lol

I'd be quite interested to see how D3 measures up to everybody's expectations and fanboyisms seeing already that part of D3 might not survive it due to too many expectations and people wanting X to be the way to was.

I'm also very interested to see how it all pans out. My interest extends beyond the pure gameplay elements and into their business model. They clearly see online gaming as the way of the future (which bugs me somewhat, in a non-fanboy way of course), and despite their company line, I think this real money auction house is behind the decision to drop offline/single player. Just thinking about it, if they allow single player they would need to ship server content with the game (bearing in mind I'm no programmer and am sketchy on the specifics), and that means it's readily available to hackers, and if dupes make their way onto battle.net and get sold for real money, the can of worms it opens doesn't bear thinking about, for Blizzard anyway.

Bill certainly is having a big smile at D3 not including lan and how people crucified him over Hellgate London and lack of their lan support.

I'm sure he is, and I've read a recent interview with Max Schaeffer talking about Torchlight 2, and if you read between the lines you can almost tell that he's hoping they can capitalize on the disillusioned Diablo fans who won't be able to play an offline version, which of course TL2 will have.

Now lets see if D3 makes day of light and how far it will fall. I'm all for it, but more realistically I'm not going to expect too much from it since D2 seems to have been the epitome of the diablo series. Maybe someone will even put a more darker texture override out there...

I'm actually, despite my reservations, dying to get my hands on D3. I think the one big thing I've learned from this thread so far is, I should try maintain an open mind and take it for what it is.

 

[Necuno]

I'm actually, despite my reservations, dying to get my hands on D3. I think the one big thing I've learned from this thread so far is, I should try maintain an open mind and take it for what it is.

Same here as I can wait on kotor, but with D3 I will get the CE or whatever version they have on day of release :0

 

[Glordit]

Guess it was time for Diablo to go into the 21st Century. I have looked at every single detail for Diablo 3, besides the "Constant Internet Connection" and "Real Money Auction House" I am very happy with the game so far.

I don't get all the "complaints?" about the new skill system, if they had kept the old system people would have complained about that as-well, probably stating "It's so 1999" -_-

To me it looks like you can go on clicking mindlessly or become a serious player adapting builds for the gear you have, it's a win-win!

 

[Nightwing]

I don't get all the "complaints?" about the new skill system, if they had kept the old system people would have complained about that as-well, probably stating "It's so 1999" -_-

To me it looks like you can go on clicking mindlessly or become a serious player adapting builds for the gear you have, it's a win-win!

I'm guilty of being a bit unconvinced by the new skill system, but am totally keen to try it out and see for myself. Thing that really bugs me about it is: They've made a big deal about how you can socket any of the 5 runes into any skill and thus customize the effect to your liking. Also, the higher level runes (from what I understand there are 7 ranks or levels of rune) will naturally increase the potency of the effect, so I imagine if you want a super powerful character at max level you'd want the max level rune. Problem is, we have no idea of the frequency of rune drops, and how hard they will be to find, so unless they drop often, it means their much-touted character customizability is subject to the RNG and drop rates, *OR* it could be a Cunning Plan (in Baldric voice) to drive activity on their RMAH. If lvl 7 runes are rare, then players wanting to max their char will kinda be forced to buy them with real money or tolerate the RNG until they get what they want.

Just thinking out loud really, not saying this is the way it will be