The Gaymer Thread
- Thread starter qornea
- Start date
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Furries are a whole different kettle of fish
Sometimes whales and dolphins too!
Ike_009
Assassin of Accountants
I'm in favor of this
Mephisto_Helix
Grump Squad
ye furries culture is wacky as wacky can be ...... they are harmless but I cannot help chuckling at them. Go forth you weirdos 
Saint_Dee
The Phantom Poet
Hello... Mic check 1, 2, 1, 2... Is this on?
Snare, 2D, and I went to a "movie night" last night which was hosted by a friend's anthropology group; the topic was Sex and Sexuality.
This is what we watched:
The video is really thought provoking and raises some interesting concepts and questions, and the ensuing discussion the group had was amazing as opinions and ideas came to the fore in different flavors. The video raises the question of labels, boxes, and categories.
It's well worth a watch
Snare, 2D, and I went to a "movie night" last night which was hosted by a friend's anthropology group; the topic was Sex and Sexuality.
This is what we watched:
The video is really thought provoking and raises some interesting concepts and questions, and the ensuing discussion the group had was amazing as opinions and ideas came to the fore in different flavors. The video raises the question of labels, boxes, and categories.
It's well worth a watch
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Wow that was a very interesting TED talk - it really highlights how strange binary thinking is when it comes to stuff like sexuality.
Also the concept of describing the percentage of how gay you are, or rather, how gay you see yourself - that's actually an interesting way to approach it.
I wonder, is it even possible to find a fixed number? Do you take all your past experiences and feelings, weigh them up and say, "I'm x% gay" - or do you base it on current circumstances, how you feel right now or moment by moment?
It's an interesting question
Also the concept of describing the percentage of how gay you are, or rather, how gay you see yourself - that's actually an interesting way to approach it.
I wonder, is it even possible to find a fixed number? Do you take all your past experiences and feelings, weigh them up and say, "I'm x% gay" - or do you base it on current circumstances, how you feel right now or moment by moment?
It's an interesting question
Saint_Dee
The Phantom Poet
Wow that was a very interesting TED talk - it really highlights how strange binary thinking is when it comes to stuff like sexuality.
Also the concept of describing the percentage of how gay you are, or rather, how gay you see yourself - that's actually an interesting way to approach it.
I wonder, is it even possible to find a fixed number? Do you take all your past experiences and feelings, weigh them up and say, "I'm x% gay" - or do you base it on current circumstances, how you feel right now or moment by moment?
It's an interesting question
At the core of it all lies the labels and boxes. Even language constricts us because of our binary thinking.
Some of the question raised through last night's discussion include:
What makes one gay? What makes you straight? Do we really need to be classified as gay and straight people if we're all just human at core of all these labels?
Another individual recanted a talk they were given by a transgender guest speaker who mentioned a study that found 3 or more biological variations of the conventional Male or Female sexes which could be classified as their own sexes, and each of them had characteristics of both in different degrees.
qornea
Much write, very gaming
http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/28/54...e-gay-protagonists-for-a-while-says-far-cry-3
I've expressed my views on gay characters in gaming in the past - it wasn't really received all that well, if I'm honest haha - and while my position on it hasn't really changed significantly, I did learn a lot from all the responses to the column I wrote.
In a nutshell, my view is that unless a character's sexuality is somehow important to the plot of a given title, I don't see a point in shoe-horning it in there. I would rather see developers stick to making good games, than doing a poor, tacked-on job of putting "gay" in the limelight.
I have eased up on my hard-line approach from before, though.
In games where I forge the narrative (Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc) I truly the value of having the options open to me; and I think the mature handling of homosexuality or non-hetero characters in games is definitely something that needs to be done more - so I am by no means saying that gay characters and themes shouldn't exist or be addressed in gaming, they definitely should.
I just think by putting the focus on it - particularly if it's not core - opens it up to being handled very poorly, and could actually end up further marginalising gay people, or reinforcing damaging stereotypes.
Also, it's bit weird thinking that a gay person can identify with a gay character just because he/she is gay. That's a bit gaycist.
I don't know - I know my views aren't entirely popular on this (as I've come to realise) and I've been told I should more militant about gay representation in gaming.
What do you guys think?
Ike_009
Assassin of Accountants
I agree, throwing a gay, black, female, furry character into a game with the sole purpose to be gay, black, female, furry etc is pathetic and you have just set back the story IMO. If you are going to include a character then they should have a purpose besides existence, essentially I don't want a character to have a sign saying "Hey look at me, I'm gay and nothing else but gay".
It's suck that we have people pushing for characters just so they can tick a box, it blocks writers into a hole where they include a character they want just to keep someone happy.
Personally how I would want it is a main character that we play as with no reference no their preference until half way into the game. Imagine playing as the main character for 3-4 hours (a Hitman orEdward Kenway like persona), the scene is that he has to meet a contact inside a strip club. The topics turns to the woman on stage and he says it's not really his style, he prefers other guys. Something that makes you question how you perceive gay people and also also at the same time breaking stereotype roles.
It's suck that we have people pushing for characters just so they can tick a box, it blocks writers into a hole where they include a character they want just to keep someone happy.
Personally how I would want it is a main character that we play as with no reference no their preference until half way into the game. Imagine playing as the main character for 3-4 hours (a Hitman orEdward Kenway like persona), the scene is that he has to meet a contact inside a strip club. The topics turns to the woman on stage and he says it's not really his style, he prefers other guys. Something that makes you question how you perceive gay people and also also at the same time breaking stereotype roles.
brendanvb
New member
This kind of scenario would be perfect, but I think the general concern (from publishers/developers etc) is that straight gamers would be turned off by playing as a gay character, as you need to in some way relate to the character you are playing, and straight guys are so worried about being considered even a little gay that they would rather avoid playing said game and being put in that position where people would be like, "Oooh, you're enjoying playing as a gay character? You must be a little gay!".
I'm not generalizing, I realize there are a lot of straight people who really wouldn't care either way as long as the game/story is good, but I do feel like that is one of the main reasons why it has not been put to the test yet. Publishers are too worried about spending the huge amounts of money it takes to develop a AAA title, and then fail abysmally because a large portion of gamers simply won't want to give it a chance because the character is gay. We won't know for sure until somebody does take that risk though, but the cost of that risk failing is sadly enough to close a company in today's gaming market, so it may be a long wait yet.
Ike_009
Assassin of Accountants
I'm hoping that people won't find out till they play the game after which they have established the character and already shown he isn't feminine and gamers will keep playing the other half. I'm sure the internet will explode but it should also make a point to gamers that get caught by the broken stereotype.
I'm also hoping a bad ass character flirting with chicks and kicking ass won't be termed "gay" and will still be considered legendary regardless if he is Bi / Gay.
Mister 44
New member
Wow that was a very interesting TED talk - it really highlights how strange binary thinking is when it comes to stuff like sexuality.
Also the concept of describing the percentage of how gay you are, or rather, how gay you see yourself - that's actually an interesting way to approach it.
I wonder, is it even possible to find a fixed number? Do you take all your past experiences and feelings, weigh them up and say, "I'm x% gay" - or do you base it on current circumstances, how you feel right now or moment by moment?
It's an interesting question
Are you familiar with the Kinsey reports? I'm not sure how much of the science stood the test of time, but it is some fascinating reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports
There's a good movie about it featuring Liam Neeson.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362269/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4
The reports were VERY controversial when it was first published.
There's a lot to it, but one of the things he published was a chart:
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual (bisexual)
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual
X Asexual
Go read the wiki article. Fascinating stuff.
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Yeah I'm quite familiar with Mr Kinsey and his work - it was/is one of the concepts that governed/governs my belief that binary sexuality simply isn't a thing for most people in the world.
Well that, and a good serving of life experience
It still remains though, is something like that fluid? Could you be a Kinsey 2 today, and end up at a Kinsey 5 in 10 years' time? Or is that just the journey - you start at the closest thing to what's considered "normal" and find where you are? What about the opposite?
I've had gay friends jump to Kinsey 5 or 6 - and over time learned, oh wait, I could actually be closer to Kinsey 4 or even 3.
I think the thing with percentages or even the Kinsey scale is that it's "self-inflicted" - wherever you feel you are is where you are, and it can change depending on wherever life takes you.
I think the foundation is "non-heterosexual" - you're born with a predisposition as being non-straight - and the many shades of grey extend from there; you define who you are by whatever criteria suits you.
Mister 44
New member
Yeah I'm quite familiar with Mr Kinsey and his work - it was/is one of the concepts that governed/governs my belief that binary sexuality simply isn't a thing for most people in the world.
Well that, and a good serving of life experience
It still remains though, is something like that fluid? Could you be a Kinsey 2 today, and end up at a Kinsey 5 in 10 years' time? Or is that just the journey - you start at the closest thing to what's considered "normal" and find where you are? What about the opposite?
I've had gay friends jump to Kinsey 5 or 6 - and over time learned, oh wait, I could actually be closer to Kinsey 4 or even 3.
I think the thing with percentages or even the Kinsey scale is that it's "self-inflicted" - wherever you feel you are is where you are, and it can change depending on wherever life takes you.
I think the foundation is "non-heterosexual" - you're born with a predisposition as being non-straight - and the many shades of grey extend from there; you define who you are by whatever criteria suits you.
I agree. I think that a person will mostly move up and down the scale on the half he or she was born in. Most people "crossing the border" (3) will do so to experiment and not really make it a way of life. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but I think it is rare.
A pretty funny classification of gay males that an older, (gay) friend of mine once shared is the Afrikaans magazine scale. He's Afrikaans and used the "m" word which I'll substitute with "gay".
We were speaking about a mutual friend that is a nice enough bloke, but tends to throw tantrums on occasion.
"Moenie hom kop toe vat nie, hy is 'n regte Huisgenoot-gay", my friend said. So I asked him what he meant and he explained his scale:
Vroue Keur - The fabulous, feathers and boa guys that Hollywood loves.
Huisgenoot - The over-emotional guys. They talk with their hands a lot.
De Kat - The elegant but somewhat pretentious gay men. Found mostly as presenters on TV sipping Appletiser out of champagne glasses.
Landbou Weekblad - Guys still in the closet.
Sarie - Guys that just came out.
Daaglikse Koerant - The kind of guy that straight people say "Haai nooit! Wie sou kon dink?" when they find out he is gay.
What made it extra funny was that he mentioned mutual friends and acquaintances as he ticked off the categories, some of which I unfortunately forgot.
Clive Woofer
New member
I always fine it curious when straight guys say they can't relate to a gay character. What happens in the case of straight guys playing female characters?
Ike_009
Assassin of Accountants
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Do developers think we only relate to game characters based on their sexuality or gender? I just seems like a weak argument. Unless they make the character's sexuality overt, and the focus of the title (which, again, in my opinion is unnecessary), then most people won't even care.
Anyway, I've always found the concept of "relating" to characters in games a bit strange.
Aside from, as you mention, the slew of female characters on display - I don't find any characters directly relatable, to anyone. I mean who goes "yeah, I totally get Dante, I can't walk down the street without battling a horde of demon spawn". Also, did this game make straight gamers uncomfortable?
Who are gamers relating to in GTA V? Michael? Franklin? Trevor? And how? Is it based on sexuality? This is where all those "games make kids turn to murder" theories come from.
Part of the whole process is to escape relatable space - to be someone else.
I guess I can understand where the whole "I don't wanna play no faggy character" mindset stems from, I'm just saying it's incredibly stupid. I like to think most people wouldn't care.
brendanvb
New member
Do developers think we only relate to game characters based on their sexuality or gender? I just seems like a weak argument. Unless they make the character's sexuality overt, and the focus of the title (which, again, in my opinion is unnecessary), then most people won't even care.
Anyway, I've always found the concept of "relating" to characters in games a bit strange.
Aside from, as you mention, the slew of female characters on display - I don't find any characters directly relatable, to anyone. I mean who goes "yeah, I totally get Dante, I can't walk down the street without battling a horde of demon spawn". Also, did this game make straight gamers uncomfortable?
Who are gamers relating to in GTA V? Michael? Franklin? Trevor? And how? Is it based on sexuality? This is where all those "games make kids turn to murder" theories come from.
Part of the whole process is to escape relatable space - to be someone else.
I guess I can understand where the whole "I don't wanna play no faggy character" mindset stems from, I'm just saying it's incredibly stupid. I like to think most people wouldn't care.
I lost you at Dante
But seriously from what I've seen online a lot of people, or at least fans of the original DMC games, were turned off by the "gay" Dante, even though he wasn't even gay. It is as you say, incredibly stupid, but times are changing so hopefully so too will the mindsets of these gamers.
