Diablo 3 Beta - Feedback :}

Diablo 3 = US
SWTOR = EU
WoW = Unknown?? :)

Fair enough, however of all my MMO's (Aion, Lotro, Rift, WoW, GW, Champions Online) - all of which were played on Euro servers with latency around the 500ms range, Swtor beats them all by 300ms less latency.

So if Bioware can do it, why can't the rest?
 
Fair enough, however of all my MMO's (Aion, Lotro, Rift, WoW, GW, Champions Online) - all of which were played on Euro servers with latency around the 500ms range, Swtor beats them all by 300ms less latency.

So if Bioware can do it, why can't the rest?

I had an average latency on Swtor over the weekend of about 45ms...
 
That's something wrong with your ISP then, if you're getting a 200ms variance to servers on the same continent, often even the same country, then your ISP is doing something funky with your packets.

My pings remain consistent while playing on any European server (wow, rift, dota2, lol, dcuo, gw), namely around the 200-250ms mark.
 
Fair enough, however of all my MMO's (Aion, Lotro, Rift, WoW, GW, Champions Online) - all of which were played on Euro servers with latency around the 500ms range, Swtor beats them all by 300ms less latency.

So if Bioware can do it, why can't the rest?

Rift's latency is also in the low 200s.
 
That's something wrong with your ISP then, if you're getting a 200ms variance to servers on the same continent, often even the same country, then your ISP is doing something funky with your packets.

My pings remain consistent while playing on any European server (wow, rift, dota2, lol, dcuo, gw), namely around the 200-250ms mark.

Rift's latency is also in the low 200s.

Interesting. I can only imagine the difference being that I played all my MMO's up until around July last year and SwTOR was played in Dec/Jan, which could mean that the overall line quality could've been improved during that period (meaning all of them should have a 210ms response time). The reason Diablo doesn't, is due to being hosted in the USA.
 
That's something wrong with your ISP then, if you're getting a 200ms variance to servers on the same continent, often even the same country, then your ISP is doing something funky with your packets.

My pings remain consistent while playing on any European server (wow, rift, dota2, lol, dcuo, gw), namely around the 200-250ms mark.

Bud, I don't understand why you and some others make such a big issue with D3 & latency? According to the above your latency is perfectly fine and will be for D3.

It's already been proven that allot of people have just about no latency issues playing on the US Beta servers (300 - 350, even 400ms gameplay was fine to play on)
Now take the fact that final servers and the game will run even better + your EU latency and things should be all fine.

How does Dota 2 run? Latency an issue? With Dota 2, latency matters right?

I guess I get your issue now. Its basically the word I used above in one of my sentences: "should"

Thou considering my experience with the D3 Beta, other EU games I play (WOW, Dota 2 etc) and the fact that I'm a serious Diablo fan I simply fail see how D3 cannot be a day 1 or pre-order purchase :)
 
Bud, I don't understand why you and some others make such a big issue with D3 & latency? According to the above your latency is perfectly fine and will be for D3.

Thou considering my experience with the D3 Beta, other EU games I play (WOW, Dota 2 etc) and the fact that I'm a serious Diablo fan I simply fail see how D3 cannot be a day 1 or pre-order purchase :)

Sorted according to latency (worst case to best case):
Have I had bouts that were completely playable from ZA to US on a shaped account? - yes
Have I had bouts that were completely unplayable from ZA to US on a shaped account? - yes
Have I had bouts that were completely playable from ZA to US on a unshaped account? - yes
Have I had bouts that were completely unplayable from ZA to US on a unshaped account? - yes
Have I had bouts that were completely playable from ZA to EU? - ???
Have I had bouts that were completely unplayable from ZA to EU? - ???
Have I had bouts that were completely playable from EU to US? - yes
Have I had bouts that were completely unplayable from EU to US? - yes

Do I want a game that could be perfectly playable one day and completely unplayable the next day without any changes on my side, whilst taking into account the limited gaming time that I have?: NO!
 
I'm not saying it IS an issue, I'm saying it could be an issue and that there isn't really a good reason for not having the option.
 
I'm not saying it IS an issue, I'm saying it could be an issue and that there isn't really a good reason for not having the option.

Yep, that's what gets me as well. I would have been 100% happy if they required online login but then allowed offline and LAN play with 0 latency.
 
I fully get what you guys are saying and I agree, ideally one would want that. Specially in countries like SA. But for the most part we are in the minority and I think we all know why its actually online only...
 
Yep, that's what gets me as well. I would have been 100% happy if they required online login but then allowed offline and LAN play with 0 latency.

So you and M0nk cant see a reason not to have the lan option?

1. Piracy
2. Cheating

There we go, there is 2. Just took 10 seconds to think about it and another 20 to post this....Life is hard....
 
I fully get what you guys are saying and I agree, ideally one would want that. Specially in countries like SA. But for the most part we are in the minority and I think we all know why its actually online only...

Sillicur said:
So you and M0nk cant see a reason not to have the lan option?

1. Piracy
2. Cheating

It's never as clear cut as that I'm afraid. Yes adding LAN might have resulted in the game being pirated more. But on the other side of the coin their lack of LAN will also cost them sales (like mine). Their argument is only valid until the LAN play is cracked, and how long do you think that will be? Then those who pirated the game will be able to enjoy LAN whilst the legal users will be stuck with online play. This isn't WoW where the majority of the content and the game code is online, making offline servers impractical. Don't you notice the similarities between this and DRM?
 
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This isn't WoW where the majority of the content and the game code is online, making offline servers impractical.

It is actually exactly like WoW, the entire game is run on the Battle.net servers, there is very thin logic in the Diablo III client. Creating a LAN mode would require a similar amount of effort to creating a WoW emulator, basically rewriting the the game.

There is a Diablo III beta emulator out right now, but it just allows you to connect to an "empty" game void of content, no monsters, quests, NPCs, merchants/shops etc, skills or abilities, you can run around get a look at New Tristram though, but that's about it.

It can be done, but don't take for granted the gargantuan task some people undertake to create emulators. It's basically rewriting the backend of the game and don't forgot how long it takes to get a somewhat playable and horrifically buggy emulator out, in the region of 2 years.
 
It is actually exactly like WoW, the entire game is run on the Battle.net servers, there is very thin logic in the Diablo III client. Creating a LAN mode would require a similar amount of effort to creating a WoW emulator, basically rewriting the the game.

I guess time will tell. Anyway the point I was trying to make was that their efforts to combat piracy by removing LAN will also cost them sales, just like adding over the top DRM also costs sales. I won't be pre-ordering the game ONLY because of their decision to drop LAN (and not allowing you to LAN while having authenticated online). I will wait and see if the beta improves in the next month and a half before release date, and then wait and hear what the eager-beavers say.
 
So you and M0nk cant see a reason not to have the lan option?

1. Piracy
2. Cheating

There we go, there is 2. Just took 10 seconds to think about it and another 20 to post this....Life is hard....
I said there were no GOOD reasons, which you might have figured out had you thought about it for more than 10seconds.

1. = DRM, which is never a good reason

2. As I've explained if you bothered to look, having LAN support doesn't make it easier to cheat, in fact it shouldn't affect the ranked/bnet play in any way. They still need the exact same anti-cheating systems they would have needed if they had LAN play.

It is actually exactly like WoW, the entire game is run on the Battle.net servers, there is very thin logic in the Diablo III client.
According to Blizzard that statement is not true, when they initially announced that Diablo 3 would be always online they said that only the loot logic would be fully controlled by the bnet servers, everything else would just be 'checking in' to make sure they are still valid. Obviously they could have changed this, but if it's still true then it doesn't work like WoW were every actor is controlled by the server.
 
I said there were no GOOD reasons, which you might have figured out had you thought about it for more than 10seconds.

1. = DRM, which is never a good reason

2. As I've explained if you bothered to look, having LAN support doesn't make it easier to cheat, in fact it shouldn't affect the ranked/bnet play in any way. They still need the exact same anti-cheating systems they would have needed if they had LAN play.


According to Blizzard that statement is not true, when they initially announced that Diablo 3 would be always online they said that only the loot logic would be fully controlled by the bnet servers, everything else would just be 'checking in' to make sure they are still valid. Obviously they could have changed this, but if it's still true then it doesn't work like WoW were every actor is controlled by the server.

Lol shame. Let me try to explain...haha

Stopping the game being pirated is a VERY good reason from the company's point of view financially. So it is a very good reason.

A lan/SP option will also make it easier to cheat and also to create bots/emulated servers because they would have to put everything in client side.

Even IF they did add a SP/lan function, people like you would probably then just QQ than you cannot use your characters online with your friends on Bnet, which would just be more QQ.

To you and wyzak: The game works just like WoW atm in terms of client/server relationship as far as the "group" that is trying to emulate the server can see. Lan play wont just be cracked, it just wont, at best in a year you will have something like WoW servers are now, which is still a mess and nothing like the real game. I used to follow the "group" closely and I can say this with almost utter certainty.

Wyzak, you said they would lose your sale. Well then they will and you will never be able to play the game like it should be played. Have fun. Blizzard does not care about your sale. For most countries always online is not even an issue at all. Even for us SA guys it is not bad at all...They have wow as a cash cow and d3 will sell millions, they care nothing about your sale.

So have fun waiting for a "LAN" patch/crack. It will not happen. For the rest of us, we will enjoying playing the game and having fun.

Also monk, source on : "According to Blizzard that statement is not true, when they initially announced that Diablo 3 would be always online they said that only the loot logic would be fully controlled by the bnet servers, everything else would just be 'checking in' to make sure they are still valid. Obviously they could have changed this, but if it's still true then it doesn't work like WoW were every actor is controlled by the server."

Cause I do not think you have one, and even if you do, according to ppl working on the emu that is not the way it is working.
 
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Stopping the game being pirated is a VERY good reason from the company's point of view financially. So it is a very good reason.
So to you Ubisoft's always online DRM is a good idea and perfectly reasonable? It's exactly the same thing. I don't understand why you would defend that viewpoint. Anyway, Blizzard stated they didn't do it for DRM reasons, or at least so they say, call it what you want though it's still control, it's just less about stopping pirates and more about controlling legit customers.

Even IF they did add a SP/lan function, people like you would probably then just QQ than you cannot use your characters online with your friends on Bnet, which would just be more QQ.
That argument is just beyond stupid. Saying you shouldn't give people more options because they will just complain about it anyway because they are too stupid to know what to do with themselves is just nonsensical.

"Hey why should we let women have careers, because we all know they will probably just complain that they want to be at home anyway."

Look if you want to hold to the viewpoint that this system is awesome and no-one should ever have any reason to complain about it then I can't stop you, I just ask you stop treating people as mentally deficient should they have a different opinion.

Cause I do not think you have one, and even if you do, according to ppl working on the emu that is not the way it is working.
I tried to find the source but came up short, I was sure I read/heard it at a Blizzcon a few years back but there have been so many of them since announcement that it's hard to keep track. Obviously I could well be mistaken.
 
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So to you Ubisoft's always online DRM is a good idea and perfectly reasonable? It's exactly the same thing. I don't understand why you would defend that viewpoint. Anyway, Blizzard stated they didn't do it for DRM reasons, or at least so they say, call it what you want though it's still control, it's just less about stopping pirates and more about controlling legit customers.


That argument is just beyond stupid. Saying you shouldn't give people more options because they will just complain about it anyway because they are too stupid to know what to do with themselves is just nonsensical.

"Hey why should we let women have careers, because we all know they will probably just complain that they want to be at home anyway."

Look if you want to hold to the viewpoint that this system is awesome and no-one should ever have any reason to complain about it then I can't stop you, I just ask you stop treating people as mentally deficient should they have a different opinion.


I tried to find the source but came up short, I was sure I read/heard it at a Blizzcon a few years back but there have been so many of them since announcement that it's hard to keep track. Obviously I could well be mistaken.

I am not familiar with Ubisoft's always online thing. I never brought that up. If blizzard wants to do it that way, that is fine. It is their game. Diablo is not a SP game though, it is not meant to be. You just get the option to play it on your own as well with mercenaries if you so choose. Only time when i would think always online is a bit extreme is when the game is completely singleplayer.

I do not try to treat people as mentally deficient, but you are just completely wrong. Also, if you say "blizzard said so" and cannot provide any actual proof, that means nothing to the argument. I can say "blizzard said with every copy of diablo you get a Ferrari, but i cant find the quote"

So lemme ask you this: What does Blizzard stand to gain by putting in a lan function and SP except for a few sales? (very little indeed, cause even people saying now they wont buy the game will do so)

I can tell you the negatives:

Piracy and cracked servers. This will happen, just look at D2. (this will be much more than the very few people who actually do not buy the game because of always online, think about it. We, the people of SA with bad internet are in the vast minority compared to the rest of the world. Even so, I only see 2 negative nancies who wont be buying it, maybe just one.)

Another negative aspect for blizzard will be that they MIGHT lose profits from their RMAH, because people who might have bought the game now just pirated it. They therefore do not play on bnet and do not sell items that drop for them. Thus, another way of losing profit.

Thing is, there are negatives to not having always online for the company and the player base as a whole, who are in the vast majority.

There are no big positives for not having always online for the company.

Please, tell me, what will the company gain from putting in SP/LAN that outweighs the negative aspects.

I try not to treat people as mentally deficient, but please, you are arguing a moot point that will not happen on a forum blizzard does not read and has no impact on their game development while being in the vast minority of people who have a real problem with it.
 
You keep arguing the point from Blizzard's standpoint not gamers. Yeah always online is awesome for Blizzard, just like removing mod support for CoD was awesome for Activision since now they can sell you remade maps and game modes instead of letting silly modders give them away for free. Doesn't mean it's good for us.

We, the people of SA with bad internet are in the vast minority compared to the rest of the world.
That's not quite true, the vast majority of people don't have Internet or have crappy Internet but of course the audience they are targeting they assume will have decent Internet. Even people with good Internet still aren't happy with stuff forcing them to be always online since it removes control about when and where they can play games they've paid for.

I will always advocate choice and freedom and I don't think we should just accept when those things get taken away from us.
 
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