Diablo 3 Beta - Feedback :}

[Sillicur]

But they arent removing SP/Lan, it was never in to begin with. Therefore, people know full well what they are getting when they pay for the product. It can not be taken away from you if you never had it. Making your argument invalid.

It is your choice to purchase the game, that is the only choice you get regarding this product. You are advocating choice and freedom. What about the creators and their product, do they not also have choice and freedom? They should be able to do with their intellectual property as they see fit should they not?

So in summary, you are advocating for an impossibility. You say you advocate choice and freedom but blatantly disregard the choice and freedom of the creators of the game. Im not saying just accept things that get taken away, but nothing was taken away. So except something that was never there to still not be there is reasonable.

TLDR: Your argument is invalid.

 

[MOnk]

Just saying an argument is invalid doesn't make it so and your reductive arguments do nothing to further discussion on the topic.

Not sure where you get the idea what Diablo 3 doesn't have single player, it sure does, in exactly the same way Diablo 1&2 did, it's your choice to play it co-operatively or not. Either play style is perfectly valid and I know I'll do a lot of solo dungeoning myself.

Yes D3 never had LAN support so you can't say it got removed but there is nothing wrong requesting its inclusion. I'm not sure how asking for something to be added somehow removes the persons choice about whether to heed or request or not. Since they clearly did ignore requests for LAN support it's obvious asking for something didn't remove their ability to decline.

There has been plenty of civilized discussion on both sides of the argument in this thread and I have a healthy respect for people who can continue a rational discussion while holding opposing positions. You on the other hand seem to have a singular objective of telling people how wrong, stupid or invalid they are while declaring your absolute correctness. Considering you are almost never going to alter people's opinion maybe you should rethink your motivations for participating in this thread.

 

[Vixremento]

But they arent removing SP/Lan, it was never in to begin with. Therefore, people know full well what they are getting when they pay for the product. It can not be taken away from you if you never had it. Making your argument invalid.

It is your choice to purchase the game, that is the only choice you get regarding this product. You are advocating choice and freedom. What about the creators and their product, do they not also have choice and freedom? They should be able to do with their intellectual property as they see fit should they not?

So in summary, you are advocating for an impossibility. You say you advocate choice and freedom but blatantly disregard the choice and freedom of the creators of the game. Im not saying just accept things that get taken away, but nothing was taken away. So except something that was never there to still not be there is reasonable.

TLDR: Your argument is invalid.

Actually a long while ago it was in:

Bashiok: There is offline single player, but it’s something we’re going to attempt to discourage as best as possible.

A lot of us, myself included, and probably a lot of you and your friends had the exact same Diablo II experience. You get the game, start playing, your friend says let’s try co-op, and when you log in your characters aren’t there. After a slight freakout moment and potentially some use of Webcrawler to search the World Wide Web with Netscape 6, you realized or figured out that you had to start over. That’s actually an experience that can cause someone to stop playing the game. Maybe you or I let out a huge sigh, and maybe a brief mourning period after realizing the last 60 hours were completely wasted, but we pressed on. That’s not the case for everyone. Maybe most people. I actually refused to start over for a while and continued on in single-player before finally jumping on Battle.net. Who knows what a lesser man would have done…
So, if we can get people online and creating character on Battle.net from the get-go, there’s less chance of that catastrophe. But there’s still a play offline option, if you should need it.

Now I've been playing in the Path of Exile beta (which is excellent BTW) but at the same time I had some connection hassles just this weekend where I couldn't play when I wanted to - since I was playing solo anyway I found it rather annoying to not be able to get in some game time when I actually have free time. At the same time though I understand why they've done this (1. DRM, 2. RMAH, 3. Tracking and balancing with forced patches, 4. Other, 5. Preventing dupes and hacks) and if I had been in their lucrative shoes I probably would have done the same however at the same time I feel hurt by it and nothing can ever change that.

I'm hoping it does well and I'm hoping that locals get to play without any connection issues but I won't be buying this day one (very sadly) as I'd rather not have potential connection issues/slowdowns/whatevers ruin my fond memories of the Diablo series (even if I was a 99% offline player). On the plus side (always look on the bright side right?) it does look like they'll eventually have some form of starter mode available...this way I'll get to try it to see just how it plays for myself before I sign up for that golden ticket!

 

[Sillicur]

Actually a long while ago it was in:


Now I've been playing in the Path of Exile beta (which is excellent BTW) but at the same time I had some connection hassles just this weekend where I couldn't play when I wanted to - since I was playing solo anyway I found it rather annoying to not be able to get in some game time when I actually have free time. At the same time though I understand why they've done this (1. DRM, 2. RMAH, 3. Tracking and balancing with forced patches, 4. Other, 5. Preventing dupes and hacks) and if I had been in their lucrative shoes I probably would have done the same however at the same time I feel hurt by it and nothing can ever change that.

I'm hoping it does well and I'm hoping that locals get to play without any connection issues but I won't be buying this day one (very sadly) as I'd rather not have potential connection issues/slowdowns/whatevers ruin my fond memories of the Diablo series (even if I was a 99% offline player). On the plus side (always look on the bright side right?) it does look like they'll eventually have some form of starter mode available...this way I'll get to try it to see just how it plays for myself before I sign up for that golden ticket!

Nice, well posted. See monk that is how you do it

Ty for the quote, I did not know it was ever in!

 

[Necuno]

Yes D3 never had LAN support so you can't say it got removed but there is nothing wrong requesting its inclusion.

/GNO

Shouldn't that be exclusion?

 

[Sillicur]

Just saying an argument is invalid doesn't make it so and your reductive arguments do nothing to further discussion on the topic.

Not sure where you get the idea what Diablo 3 doesn't have single player, it sure does, in exactly the same way Diablo 1&2 did, it's your choice to play it co-operatively or not. Either play style is perfectly valid and I know I'll do a lot of solo dungeoning myself.

Yes D3 never had LAN support so you can't say it got removed but there is nothing wrong requesting its inclusion. I'm not sure how asking for something to be added somehow removes the persons choice about whether to heed or request or not. Since they clearly did ignore requests for LAN support it's obvious asking for something didn't remove their ability to decline.

There has been plenty of civilized discussion on both sides of the argument in this thread and I have a healthy respect for people who can continue a rational discussion while holding opposing positions. You on the other hand seem to have a singular objective of telling people how wrong, stupid or invalid they are while declaring your absolute correctness. Considering you are almost never going to alter people's opinion maybe you should rethink your motivations for participating in this thread.

Monk, thing is, its not that im saying anyone is stupid, I do understand where you are coming from, but I have to add something, here goes...

The reason for the argument being a moot point and therefore useless is simple. The game is done, finished. The developers have said time and time again there will be no offline/sp/lan support. That is a final answer and they have stated reasons for that. No amount of arguing will change that.

IF lets say the game sells 8 million copies and a million people complain constantly and demand it get added, maybe then it might happen. I personally would not mind that, but I have a better chance to grow wings and fly away from my pc than for that to happen. Maybe if blizzard representatives were actively reading this thread there would be some point to it and make rational sense to keep arguing, but they are not.

TLDR: Arguing about this is completely and utterly pointless. The game systems are done, this is a fact not an opinion.

 

[Vixremento]

Nice, well posted. See monk that is how you do it

Ty for the quote, I did not know it was ever in!

Anytime! I will always be a Diablo fanboy (even if I moan and gripe about some of their decisions...well only the forced online bits ). I'll keep going to sleep every night dreaming of that special announcement where they say "hey, you offline chaps can have a strict offline mode if you really want to play in that dark basement of yours all alone you silly frieks!"...

 

[Sillicur]

Anytime! I will always be a Diablo fanboy (even if I moan and gripe about some of their decisions...well only the forced online bits ). I'll keep going to sleep every night dreaming of that special announcement where they say "hey, you offline chaps can have a strict offline mode if you really want to play in that dark basement of yours all alone you silly frieks!"...

Haha cool man. And actually, most of my d2 memories and gameplay was also offline, at a friend's house lanning it up ! Even so, just like you im very happy about the release and I dont cry about always online, I just cheer from happiness that it is actually coming out

 

[MOnk]

A lot of us, myself included, and probably a lot of you and your friends had the exact same Diablo II experience. You get the game, start playing, your friend says let’s try co-op, and when you log in your characters aren’t there. After a slight freakout moment and potentially some use of Webcrawler to search the World Wide Web with Netscape 6, you realized or figured out that you had to start over. That’s actually an experience that can cause someone to stop playing the game. Maybe you or I let out a huge sigh, and maybe a brief mourning period after realizing the last 60 hours were completely wasted, but we pressed on. That’s not the case for everyone. Maybe most people. I actually refused to start over for a while and continued on in single-player before finally jumping on Battle.net. Who knows what a lesser man would have done…
So, if we can get people online and creating character on Battle.net from the get-go, there’s less chance of that catastrophe.

That quote just seems like bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle.net

The game also has an open character feature on Battle.net which stored the player's character on the client. This allowed players to play characters locally or on a LAN, and then use those same characters on Battle.net. However, any open games played on Battle.net were not protected from cheating by other players since they could have modified their characters locally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II
Multiplayer is achieved through Blizzard's Battle.net free online service, or via a LAN. Battle.net is divided into "Open" and "Closed" realms.[14] Players may play their single-player characters on open realms; characters in closed realms are stored on Blizzard's servers, as a measure against cheating, where they must be played every 90 days to avoid expiration.

Hence you could very easily have played your SP character co-op with your mate without having to start over. The closed bnet only servers were there so you could play with anyone with the knowledge that they didn't cheat to get their characters, not something you really care about when you playing with mates. There were other benefits of course but it wasn't like if you started an SP offline char you could never play online with your friends, that's just not true.

 

[Sillicur]

Now now, no need to swear man People are just giving their opinions. Also, it is "a SP char" not "an SP char". Your welcome

 

[MOnk]

Now you are just trolling but whatever please continue. I'm not sure who you think is giving their opinion considering I didn't comment on anyone's opinion. The quote was from Bashiok who was describing a situation which he claims as the truth, that's not opinion. I call it BS since in reality that isn't true since you would be able to play with your friends online with your single player character.

Now now, no need to swear man People are just giving their opinions. Also, it is "a SP char" not "an SP char". Your welcome

It's you're not your. You too, are welcome.

I bid you adieu.

 

[Sillicur]

Now you are just trolling but whatever please continue. I'm not sure who you think is giving their opinion considering I didn't comment on anyone's opinion. The quote was from Bashiok who was describing a situation which he claims as the truth, that's not opinion. I call it BS since in reality that isn't true since you would be able to play with your friends online with your single player character.


It's you're not your. You too, are welcome.

I bid you adieu.

Hahah you saw it, WP But it was not trolling, please do not swear on these forums...

 

[Nightwing]

The lack of offline SP has pissed me off for a while, but at some point last year I realised it was inevitable and decided I would play the game anyway, because Diablo games are just fun, and I've had countless hours of enjoyment with the previous titles in singleplayer as well as on LAN with mates. Thing is, the official reasoning doesn't hold water with me, They claim it's to prevent duping, botting and so on, but already people have emulators running as well as working hacks for the beta (maphacks and bots): http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/...And-here-we-go-Maphack-and-Botlaoder-released.

I don't do cheats and neither do my friends, so my single player and group experience (I don't play pub games) will be fine but I wonder what impact this will have on the integrity of the RMAH, which imho is the real reason we're being forced to play online. If Blizz allows people to play offline they start cutting into the potential market for their RMAH, and since they're taking a cut for every transaction it does make sense.

I know the beta servers don't have warden or anti hack measures implemented, but I really hope they get it sorted and that there are frequent ban-waves for people using exploits, else Blizz will be stuck with a serious problem.

 

[Necuno]

There is few games that still offers "just lan". Most of the games you have to be online to be able to connect to each other. Why?

In short:
Simple because the developer wants you to be interconnected with him. This would for example force you to be on a level where you can get your game patched easily.

I don't see why this just can't be understood. We've quite moved away from pre-dsl play over serial, ltp, coaxel, etc etc into an era where people would use their internet connection.

Diablo 3 surely isn't the first, the only nor the last game that will "force you to be online". I can but only remember the great outcry because of hellgate london going a similar route, by including no lan feature. No lan just the natural progression of things. We, well I don't just go to lans any more, I use my DSL for that. I can both download and play games, because I'd bet if "downloading" at lans would be banned the lans themselves would cease to exist. (or at least most of them)

It's been boo-fucking-hoo for me since I've started gaming and wanted to try some international matches with my beloved genre...FSP. I've made peace with it. One could never just hop on the grid and go say cod with someone in taiwan or australia.

It's not blizzards mandate to keep our telecommunications where it should be, nor do they need (must) cater for countries that's lacking behind the world in terms of technology and infrastructure. If you can't fall into this then I suppose it's time to stop crying like a baby and play Diablo 2 till you are able to properly connect up to the system and enjoy the game.

In case you guys missed it.... we are very well in the information age, not the stone age

Now shall we get on topic again: Diablo 3 Beta - Feedback :}

 

[OmegaFenix]

There is few games that still offers "just lan". Most of the games you have to be online to be able to connect to each other. Why?

In short:
Simple because the developer wants you to be interconnected with him. This would for example force you to be on a level where you can get your game patched easily.

I don't see why this just can't be understood. We've quite moved away from pre-dsl play over serial, ltp, coaxel, etc etc into an era where people would use their internet connection.

Diablo 3 surely isn't the first, the only nor the last game that will "force you to be online". I can but only remember the great outcry because of hellgate london going a similar route, by including no lan feature. No lan just the natural progression of things. We, well I don't just go to lans any more, I use my DSL for that. I can both download and play games, because I'd bet if "downloading" at lans would be banned the lans themselves would cease to exist. (or at least most of them)

It's been boo-fucking-hoo for me since I've started gaming and wanted to try some international matches with my beloved genre...FSP. I've made peace with it. One could never just hop on the grid and go say cod with someone in taiwan or australia.

It's not blizzards mandate to keep our telecommunications where it should be, nor do they need (must) cater for countries that's lacking behind the world in terms of technology and infrastructure. If you can't fall into this then I suppose it's time to stop crying like a baby and play Diablo 2 till you are able to properly connect up to the system and enjoy the game.

In case you guys missed it.... we are very well in the information age, not the stone age

Now shall we get on topic again: Diablo 3 Beta - Feedback :}

+1, brilliant post.

 

[SnowWar]

I have to say I support Sillicur's posts. Its well said and spot on.

** dope. did not see Nightwing's link

Ow and hacks for the beta is out... But the beta does not have warden or any counter measures running atm...

Diablo III Hacks Released

A post in the forums draws attention to the release of hacks for Diablo 3 to the public. We won’t be linking directly to the article… because, hax.

The third party program allows one to instant quit, instant craft, load a bot, and instantly reveal your entire map. The full feature set is the following:

Maphack

Reveals units on the minimap (regular mobs in red, champs/bosses/rares in blue)
Displays arrowes to level exits
Minimap Markers are always revealed!
The correct defiled crypt is colored in a green!
Other Features

Instantly exit games
Instantly craft
Displays a timer in the left bottom when in-game
Displays clock in the left bottom when hanging out in the lobby
Allows .NET assemblies to be loaded (create bots)
It’s important to remember, though, that Warden and other hack detecting software is not currently enabled in the beta and hackers are still not aware of what will be detectable in the long run, and whether or not any of their efforts right now will be sustainable past launch day. The only known way to get banned at the present time is to flaunt illegitimate ways to gold farm or similar exploitative measures to the community.

The fact that such hacks exist already does bring light to a vital problem – for its community and its economy. Having real money stakes in a game that can be cheated by third party programs could undermine the stability of the economy that would reduce the profits generated by the RMAH. So not only does Blizzard have a vested interest in stabilizing the economy, banning hackers forces the players to buy a new copy of the game to continue their exploits. It’s a win-win situation for Blizzard, assuming they actively ban accounts.

While the presence of hacks this early into development is seen as a dark omen for the future of the game, it does show Blizzard methods of hacking that they will need to address as soon as possible. For many, “as soon as possible” can never be soon enough. What is the community’s thoughts on the release of bots? We all know it was an inevitability, but will the availability of botting this early into the beta be a good thing or does it foreshadow the failure of the economy?

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-iii-maphack-and-bot-released

 

[MOnk]

Nephalem Valor is one of the major new systems in Diablo III and it kicks in at level 60. Keep in mind that this is still in testing and we’re still working out the details. Here’s how it currently works internally: Rare and Champion packs already have great loot on them. By killing a Rare or Champion pack, not only do you get their loot, but you’ll also receive a buff granting you increased magic find and gold find. However, if you change a skill, skill rune, passive, or leave the game, the buff disappears. As an extra reward, if you kill a boss while this buff is active, you’ll receive extra loot drops from that boss.

The exact amount of magic find and gold find provided by the buff is still being reviewed, as is the amount of extra loot you get from a boss while the buff is active. We’re also playing around with whether or not the buff stacks, what the duration should be, and whether or not it should persist through death. We want to make sure the buff is strong enough to make staying in your current game more rewarding than creating a new game. At the same time, if the buff is too strong, it risks making shorter play sessions feel not worthwhile.

We expect this system will encourage players to stick with a skill build of their choice, select an area of the game they enjoy, and sweep it for rare and champion packs on their way to a boss, finishing off a run with a boss that’ll be worth killing. If you wanted a shorter play session you could be done at that point, but if you have more time, the path of least resistance would ideally be to stay in the same game and make your way towards the next boss.

What do guys think of this? Seems like a pretty cool system, obviously it needs to be balanced properly else it could feel more punishing than rewarding. I just wonder why it's only at lvl60 rather than lvl30 after your first play through, if I create a really cool build and my friend doesn't know what he's doing and keeps chopping and changing, shouldn't I also get a bit of an edge?

I suppose that brings up another topic, will you actually get to level 60? I'm not sure about that myself, playing through the same content 3 times and then doing it a 4th for Inferno loot runs. I think I only managed lvl52 or something like that with my highest level character doing two play throughs in D2. I guess it depends on how things play out and just how random encounters might be.

 

[Phatso]

Regarding Nephalem Valor, I think its a great way to encourage actual “builds” at max level and sticking with a specific formula has its benefits over chopping and changing specs for every situation. Adding features like this so far down the line is good and bad. Good because it shows Blizzard are listening to concerns and working on the game constantly. Bad because.. well I guess not so bad seeing as though May 15 is set in stone. I think it’s a really cool feature and will encourage pushing through to the next pack with the buff.

Regarding levelling up to 60 - You bring up a good point Monk, and this is something that I often contemplate in games. How many times am I going to reach “max level”. Look, we don’t really know how long its going to take just yet and I am sure this will be tweaked over time, as Blizz have done in their other RPG (*cough*wow*cough*), but i can only imagine that due to the Normal/Hell/Inferno/Nightmare modes, its going to be the “same content” over and over, just getting more difficult every time. And that is just with one class, and I am sure most of us will be rolling multiple classes.

I guess my point on this is, in Skyrim/Deus Ex for example, I said “on my second playthrough…”. Problem is, I never had the will power to do it all again. With WoW on the other hand, after my very first max level toon, I never thought I’d do it again, and when I quit playing I had too many characters to mention. The fundamental difference however was in the differences. A new class is a big difference obviously, but this is regarding the same toon, all the way to 60. How different will the more difficult modes be? The loot will be better (which is awesome), the monsters and quests the same (meh). The monsters will be more difficult (awesome), but you won’t be getting as many new abilities (meh). Also, important to remember is the public match-making. You are a click away from powering through with 3 other people, some hellbent on burning through content ASAP.

The gameplay and loot and general Diablo-ness will be the deciding factor for me.

Another thing I really need to note here, I do not understand how some SA gamers (from other forums too) can state that they can't feel latency / lag and have pings of between 400 and 500. I can feel the difference between 200 and 400 in Diablo and its the difference between awesomesauce and uberkak. (not going to get into the whole debate again, but to say that 400 ping in an D3BETA isn't felt, is a lie).

 

[MOnk]

Also, important to remember is the public match-making. You are a click away from powering through with 3 other people, some hellbent on burning through content ASAP.

Not so sure about that, apparently the difficulty is going to scale up pretty heavily when you add more players with Blizzard saying that if you are playing nightmare with 4 dudes and 1 of you strays it will probably lead to a quick and painful death.

That's cool when you are playing with your buds and working together but if you just pick up 3 randoms then it might be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[SnowWar]

I suppose that brings up another topic, will you actually get to level 60? I'm not sure about that myself, playing through the same content 3 times and then doing it a 4th for Inferno loot runs. I think I only managed lvl52 or something like that with my highest level character doing two play throughs in D2. I guess it depends on how things play out and just how random encounters might be.

I def will. Every serious Diablo fan will All my D2 toons are very high level. D3 Loot runs here I come!

Obviously that is very different for the more casual gamers and fans.